6 Minute Marketing

10 SECOND OVERVIEW

This book is a transcription of an interview with Jeremy Gislason and Simon Hodgkinson, two internet marketing millionaires. In the interview, they share key advice on turning the seed of an idea into a highly profitable product. Then they go one step further and show you how to spend six minutes marketing the product to get the sales flowing.

And now, let’s get to the interview.

Terry:

Hi there.  You’re listening to Terry Telford from TerryTelford.com, and today we are very fortunate to have two extremely successful Internet marketers with us.  We have Jeremy Gislason and Simon Hodgkinson, who really are two of the Internet’s premier professionals.  They’ve proven themselves over and over and over with products like Sure Fire Wealth, Big Survey, Secret Audio Sessions, and of course, Marketing Main Event, and Marketing Main Event 2, which were absolutely phenomenal successes.

I heard through the grape vine that Marketing Main Event 2 made somewhere around $600,000.  So, you can see the kind of quality that these guys bring to the table.  What we’re going to do tonight is, pick their brains about how to start off with the seed of an idea, move it into the product development stage and then market it to create a highly profitable product.  We’re going to look at how they went from zero, with just the idea, up to a product that sells over $600,000 online.

Without me babbling on any more guys, maybe we can start off with your backgrounds.

Jeremy, can you tell us where you came from and how you got to where you are today?

Jeremy:

Sure, Terry.  I have a long line of entrepreneurs in my family. My father had his own business and some of my aunts and uncles had their own businesses. I always thought that having your own business was the way to go. A lot of my friends’ fathers worked for companies, and I just thought that having your own business was a better path to follow in life.  So, I had my mindset, even as a teenager, and I just went from there.  I did a lot of traveling and ended up in Japan.  My wife and I opened a language school over here.  We’ve had it for about ten years now and it’s very successful.

I started to look for other streams of income and other opportunities to expand into other businesses about five or six years ago.  One thing led to another, and I got involved with some online programs. I started buying products, checking things out, reading eBooks on how to make money online, and things like that.  I ended up meeting a man by the name of Darryl Graham in 2002.  We hit it off and I ended up working directly with him for a couple of years at ISO Register Incorporated, which owns quite a few websites.  The main one is ISORegister.com.

We did a lot of things together.  We built an online tracking system, we built an online autoresponder, very similar to AWeber (but it was at ISOResponder.com) and we built an online rotating system.  We put together a lot of different membership sites.  We just learned how to do a bunch of different things, as far as membership sites go.  I met some great programmers and other marketers and business owners over the next couple of years.

In the beginning of 2005, I decided to launch my own site called Sure Fire Wealth. It took off pretty quickly and I ended up meeting Simon about the same time I was launching the site. I bought a lot of his products and he was a member of my site.  We got to know each other over the summer and started working together more during the fall.  Since then, we’ve had quite a big success.  We’ve launched the Secret Audio Sessions, MME 1, 2, and 3 and there are a lot of things going on.

Things have exploded really fast.  Six years ago I didn’t know what an e-mail account was or how anything worked at all.  Now, I’m making over a million dollars a year online.  It’s quite a big change.

Terry:

That’s fantastic.  The six-year, one million-dollar plan.

Jeremy:

Yea.

Terry:

How about you Simon?  What’s your background?  Where did you come from?

Simon:

I’ve had sales and marketing in my blood since leaving college.  I’ve always had an interest in sales, I guess.  I was lucky, a friend of a friend got me a job working in a marketing department.  It was in an engineering firm.  It wasn’t very glamorous, but the engineering side and the sales side were appealing, so it worked for me.

I started working as an assistant to a guy who had 40 years of experience in direct sales.  He’d come in to direct the advertising and marketing of that company.  I was his general go-to-the-store-and-get-me-a-sandwich guy, but I learned an awful lot from him.  I got the sales bug after working for him for a couple of years.

Then, things moved on a little bit and I decided that I wanted to go out and do what he did and be a salesman on the road and make a lot of money.  So, I moved to another engineering company that sold hydraulic equipment, so it wasn’t too much of a jump with the product.  I went out on the road as a salesman.  That was a tough market to sell into, it was a pretty dense market.  I spent a couple of years doing that, then I got offers to move else where in engineering sales.

I went to work for a company that made gearboxes for commercial vehicles like fire engines and military vehicles.  I became an account manager and covered pretty much half of the UK selling to truck manufacturers.  One of the things that led me into the Internet arena was I hated the amount of time I spent traveling.  It was great being a salesman, but in this day and age, if you’re out on the road, you spend half the week stuck in traffic jams.  I was getting home late and leaving very early in the morning just to avoid the traffic.

Then, in the late 90’s, I got interested in the Internet marketing arena.  I’m self-taught. I learned how to do website design, search engine optimization, and advertising.  I started to do website design for some friends who had their own businesses and small business owners that I already knew.  Then, it snowballed from there.  I got more and more requests for more sites.  Basically, I got to the point where I was earning more money, moon lighting, than I was working a day job and being stuck on the motorways all day.  I decided at that point to set up a web design company.  This was in very early 2000.

In the UK, it was a very ripe market.  A lot of companies decided that they needed websites, so it was quite lucrative.  I went into that full-time and would also advise people on optimizing their sites and web advertising.  It was a lot tougher than I thought it would be.  Going from the corporate world to running your own business is quite a jump.

You go from having everything done for you, apart from your job, to being the guy who is the master of everything.  That was a lot tougher than I thought, because I was going out and recruiting and trying to get business, then I would have to come back and handle the whole business as well.  I was working more hours and making the same or less than I was, working for somebody else.  I enjoyed the fact that I was my own boss, but it was pretty tiring.

Then, since I was in search engine optimization and online advertising, I got the Internet marketing bug.  So, I started a few affiliate marketing sites.  I built a software application called the Magic Button.  It wasn’t called that at the time, but I designed the script for the clients to capture leads from their websites.  I saw an opportunity in the market to take that to the Internet marketing arena.

I did that and sold a lot of those.  That led to backend product sales, and I started to build a list.  Again, it got to a point where I was earning as much from the moonlighting role as I was from the design business.  I then jumped full-time into Internet marketing and I haven’t looked back since.  That was about two or three years ago.

Terry:

Fantastic.  That’s when you ended up meeting Jeremy.

Simon:

I’d say about 12 months afterwards, yea.  It was probably the beginning of 2005 that we started talking to each other.

Terry:

How did it progress from there?  You met each other and then started throwing ideas around? How did you decide to get together and develop a product?

Jeremy:

We both had to prove ourselves to each other. We didn’t just suddenly e-mail each other and say, “Let’s work together.”  I’d been following Simon, and one thing I noticed about him was that he made killer products, like with his master resale rights. They were perfect for my Sure Fire Wealth site and for my customers.  So, I was basically buying his products as soon as he had them up.  I started contacting him more after that.

Simon:

I think at the time, Jeremy, you were paying my mortgage, weren’t you?

Jeremy:

Yea, probably.  It was well worth it.  I’d been searching high and low to find the best products for my members.  Every time I found something that was really good, I’d look to see who created it and there was Simon’s name.  I realized that he was a little different than other people out there.  So, I kind of followed him and kept checking out his products.

He made hit after hit.  It was really phenomenal.  I’ve seen other people make resale rights or eBooks, but no one could make sales pages or graphics or continually great product after product like Simon was doing.  He was just spitting them out in 2005.  How many did you create that year?  Was it 100 or something?

Simon:

I have no idea.  It was probably around 100.

Terry:

100 in a year?

Jeremy:

Yea.  It was a lot.  It was like every week.  It was just crazy.  My site was growing and his business was growing, and we just got to know each other that way.  The first big thing that I did was Niche Power Pack 3, that I was an affiliate… is that right, Simon?  That sold pretty well.

Simon:

Yes, it was.  One of the things that I started to do… back then there was a growing interest in people moving away from Internet marketing, which in itself in a niche, and were looking outside of the Internet marketing arena to sell products.  I saw that opportunity and created something called Niche Power Pack.

I’ve been quite successful; I’ve been lucky because my mom is an author.  She had a lot of interest in gardening and stuff like that.  I basically took that resource and said, “Can you write me one book on organic gardening, one on herb gardening, and one book on this?”  She was throwing these things out for me and I was selling them in that particular market.

So, in addition to the Internet marketing niche that I was in, I was selling into the gardening market as well.  I realized that niche markets were very profitable.  I took the leap and decided that I was going to create a product for Internet marketers that would take them out of Internet marketing.  I created a series of products called Niche Power Pack.  I think I did Niche Power Pack 1, that came with ten products that had gardening related product, cooking related product, job related products… it was basically eBooks and special reports in there.  With each package and the ten products, they each had their own website and graphics.  It was a new thing.

It did really well for me so the logical thing in my mind was to create Niche Power Pack 2.  I think that one had 20 products in there.  Then, I went to Niche Power Pack 3.  I spent a lot of time putting Niche Power Pack 3 together.  I obviously didn’t write every book myself; I was paying people to write them and I was picking up private label rights (before they even became popular) on different niches.  You name it, it was in there.

It included everything from organizing a wedding to servicing a car.  Everything was in this package.  I think there were 116 products in this package with websites and graphics.  Then, I started to look around for instructional products to put in there as well about how to sell into niche markets as well.  There is a difference between selling into a niche and selling into the Internet marketing arena.

Jeremy saw that package and said, “I’d like to promote that with you.”  That was a great success.  Now, you look at that compared to things like Marketing Main Event 2, and there’s no real comparison.  But, at the time, that was the first product that generated above $50,000.  The problem was that I hit the niche market inside of it before a lot of other people.  The market became flooded because people saw the success in my package.  When people see success, they start to copy.  So, there were a lot of niche market products being brought into the market.  A lot of them weren’t very good.

As Jeremy said, he bought a lot of the resale rights from me.  Whenever I created a product for people to sell… I like to work in that scenario because, in a way, you’re selling a little business to somebody.  I’ve always known from being a salesman that people will keep buying from you if you help them make money.  I used to focus a lot of my attention on writing good sales copy for the resale rights products and putting good graphics on them.  I knew that it would help people sell.  If they bought it for $50 or $100, and two weeks later have made $500 or $1,000 from it, then next time you release a product, they’re going to buy it again.

I built up the business very quickly like that because people made money from buying my products and people kept buying them.  It was great for me; I was acting as a wholesaler in a way.  The business sort of went from there.  Jeremy and I promoted Niche Power Pack 3 together and had good results.  Even though we knew about each other prior to that, that was the first time we worked together seriously, wasn’t it?

Jeremy:

I think that was the first time we started e-mailing each other on a personal basis and not just as a customer relationship basis.  We started actually talking to each other.

Simon:

I think it was when I saw how many sales Jeremy had brought in.

Terry:

So you’re both on the forefront of now industries like niche marketing.  That’s a very common place for lots of different niche marketing products.  But, Simon, it seems like you’re one of the people who started to develop that side of the market.  And, Jeremy, with Sure Fire Wealth, your websites was one of the first ones to have a really good index of resale rights products where you could go to the websites and get the real products.  You kind of seem to be sitting on the forefront of two industries that are now very mainstream.

Jeremy:

Yea.  That’s a good point, Terry.  I remember in 2003 and 2004 trying to look around to find resale rights, master resale rights, private label rights, or whatever I could find, and it was really hard.  A lot of the stuff that I did find was junk.  I found some really good ones here or there that I just put in a folder.  I just went from there.  What I wanted to do was, from the user point of view, create a site that I would be happy using.  That’s how I created Sure Fire Wealth.  I created it from the user’s perspective.  I wanted it to be really easy to use and find products; not just be loaded with a bunch of junk.

I joined a bunch of so called membership sites before that and they have a page with 100 links, but you never know what the heck you’re downloading.  I knew that wasn’t the way to go.  I wanted it to be very flexible.  I wanted people to come in all the time, find things easily, and have images and descriptions… kind of like how Amazon.com displays their products.  I wanted to go that route to make it user friendly.  I wanted to separate it from the rest by having quality products.  Again, that’s why I found Simon.  Things just kept leading up to that.

After Niche Power Pack 3, we communicated more.  What was the next one?  Wasn’t it Affiliate Enhancer or something that we did a few months later that did really well?

Simon:

Yea, that’s right.  I think I created a lot of products, but at the time, I was creating a big product every couple of months.  I would make regular products, and then every couple of months there would be a $200 product in there.  The next one that I did after Niche Power Pack 3 was Affiliate Enhancer.  I don’t want to claim that I was the first to do this, but it created landing pages for affiliates.  That was before everybody started talking about squeeze pages.

That was something that we worked on together a lot more than even Niche Power Pack 3 because we already worked together.  Jeremy was one of the top affiliates on Affiliate Enhancer as well.  Again, that caught people’s imaginations because, in the past, there were very few people talking about creating landing pages for affiliate programs.  At the same time, pay per click was becoming more popular.  I saw that people were losing advantages by having someone click on a pay per click ad and sending them right to an affiliate site.

Jeremy:

This was in the summer of 2005 just so you all know.

Simon:

It just seemed like a crazy thing to do.  I haven’t really dabbled in any kind of advertising because the resale rights products were building a list for me anyway.  I was picking up subscribers because of my reputation that I have in the marketplace.  I could see people losing money on pay per click.  This is history now, but you’d send somebody to an affiliate link through a pay per click ad.

Once they clicked the link, if they didn’t buy, you lost them for good.  I thought that what people need to do is create what is now known as a squeeze page and capture e-mail addresses, and maybe get them to download a free report.  Then, you could keep selling to them.  So, if they didn’t buy the first time around, you got the opportunity again.  Obviously, it would reduce your cost to advertise as well.

You could also use Affiliate Enhancer as a redirect page as well.  If people were already on your list, you could pre-sell a product to them and then send them to the sales page.  So, that was something that worked very well for both of us.  We promoted that, and that was a successful product as well.

Jeremy:

It was a real lead-up throughout the whole year with all the different events.  In 2005, there were a lot of fire sales starting to come out in the Internet marketing world.  We were getting flooded with them.  A few came out during the spring, and then during the summer, everyone was having a fire sale every day.  A lot of them were just junk.  Simon and I thought that we should do something that really helped people.  I e-mailed him a few times and said, “Let’s do something, Simon.”

I wanted to do something for my own members with him in the beginning.  Simon would say, “Yea,” but he was a busy guy and I was busy too.  We just left it at that.  In September, I had enough of these fire sales and said, “Simon, we have to do something.  Seriously.”  I think we got on Skype or something and said, “Okay… let’s do it.”  That’s when we got serious about it and we just went to town after that.

Simon:

At that point, Jeremy surprised me.  We were talking about packaging really good products together and knew that we needed a time frame to do this in.  He said that we should do it in eight weeks.  That’s when I knew that he was really serious.  Jeremy was sort of a drill sergeant.  It was a kick on the butt from Jeremy, and that’s how we got it done so quickly.

Terry:

That’s fantastic.  Simon, you create 100 products in a year how did you even do that?

Simon:

Honestly, I didn’t do them all myself.  I use programmers, ghostwriters, private label right content, and I re-write things.  The thing that I like doing most is writing sales copy.  I like the product creating process, and I think I have a pretty good nose for what sell and what doesn’t sell.  I’m not saying that all 100 products sold fantastically well; some of them fell flat on their face.  For me, it was the product creation process and the sales copy process that I enjoyed most.  I didn’t really market them really well.  I might send out one e-mail… there are some people who would create a product and spend six months selling it.  I’d create a product and spend six minutes selling it, then go on to the next one.

Terry:

Let’s talk about that because I’ve never heard that before.  What do you do in those six minutes?

Simon:

I have a list of subscribers that knew whatever was coming out would sell for them.  I could basically send an e-mail out to my list and say, “I have a new product.  This is your potential market.  These are the people you can sell it to.  It’s a hot subject in this specific area.  Here’s the download link; see the sales page for yourself.”  That would generate about 50-150 orders.  Depending on what it was, sometimes more.

That gave me a very comfortable lifestyle.  I’d spend all week creating one or two products, then send an e-mail out on a Friday afternoon and people would scramble and download the latest thing.  It really went well for me.  So, when I said six minutes selling, it really might have been 16 because I would spell check the e-mail.  That was basically what I was doing.

Jeremy:

Didn’t you used to have two links in your e-mails, Simon?  One was to buy the products and one was to go straight to the resale rights?

Simon:

Yea.

Jeremy:

Because that was always the one I used to hit.  We were just talking about this the other day: if you go to Google and type in “Simon Hodgkinson,” there are like 400,000 results, it’s all of his products.  So, his six minutes of selling has created a resale rights empire because tons of people are selling his products online.  He has back links all over the place going back to his main sites.  That was his SEO strategy too, which worked out very well.

Simon:

I was going to say that that’s two products in one.  I could do the six-minute selling audio, and the lazy SEO one.  I used to be very into it.  When I was working in the web design area, I used to study everything there was to know about search engine optimization.  Then, I realized that it was a complete waste of time.  I would put products out there… honestly, Terry, I don’t know how many websites I own, but it’s a lot.

I really couldn’t tell you and I’m not just saying that.  I have no idea how many domain names I own or how many sites I own.  It’s over 100.  Some of the sites have ten or 20 products on them.  Some have more, and some are membership sites.  That became, not the lazy way to get good search engine rankings, but as Jeremy said, there are a lot of back links out there.  They give me a lot of traffic.  It could be fifth generation down the line, but somebody can buy a product that I’ve created.

One of the things I always do with resale rights products is make the person who buys it come back to me to build my list.  I created software and would make sure the user registration came back to me.  Then, I gave them something else as a bonus to get them to sign up for the list.  So, it built a good following of people who would buy the products.  I didn’t have to work very hard to sell them.

Terry:

And then you’re building your list on the backend as well.

Simon:

That’s right.

Terry:

So, do you have one main list, and that’s the one you send your newsletter or ezine to?  Or, do you have all various lists that connect to each product?

Simon:

Jeremy will tell you about my lists.  I’m not a very organized person, Terry.  I have 60 or 70 lists.  Of those, maybe ten of them are active.  The main one, if you go to InfoClicks.co.uk, is the resale rights list.  I can ask people to go there now, they can see the four or five books that I’ve written on resale rights and how to make money with resale rights that you can download for free from there.  That’s the main one, but then I have niche lists, I have sub-niche lists, and too many to tell you how many because I really just don’t know.

Terry:

With this partnership between you guys, you must be the organized one then, Jeremy.

Jeremy:

I don’t know… sometimes.  When we got together working, we each had a role.  My role was to get the backends set up, the domains set up, the member area set up, and the admin set up.  We run everything on a CMS system, which is a content management system.  I think a lot of people are still unfamiliar with those, especially Internet marketers.

Terry:

Me being one of them.  Maybe you can elaborate on that.

Jeremy:

Okay.  We set up a main control panel so that either Simon or I could enter at any time and have full control over the entire business.  We don’t log in directly to our servers; our programmers do that.  Our programmers take care of all of the tech work.  They set up a CMS admin panel for us so we can just log in and instantly see how much money we made, we can send e-mail to the members, we can change banners and links, we can upload, download, make things inactive, we can check our autoresponders, and anything at all in that business just from one central control panel.

I like to call it the God panel.  Everything in the entire business is right at a touch of your mouse.  It’s really convenient when you’re in a partnership with somebody because either of you can sign in and have that access.  It’s all backed up daily and it’s a really good system.  It’s something that we’re working on for MME 3 also to help people be able to do what we’ve done.  I think a lot of Internet marketers don’t understand how to build a business.  They understand how to sell products and maybe build a list or something, but they don’t understand how to build a business.

The one thing we wanted to do differently with Marketing Main Event was to build a business.  We had an exit strategy set up.  We had everything set up to not just do some one-time fire sale thing.  We wanted to do something big and long-term, and that’s what we’ve been doing.  Simon did a lot of the product creation side, and he wrote the awesome sales page; it sold like crazy.  He’s one of the best copywriters that I’ve seen.  He’s up there with some of the best guys in the world.

Simon:

Can I add to that?  I’m not for hire.

Jeremy:

The sales page for MME 2 is like 60 or 70 pages or something.  It was really a good seller.  The conversions can also prove that.  We each had a role, and we had other people creating products for us at the same time.  Marketing Main Event 1 was a smaller scale, but we also had a tight time frame.  I basically got a hold of a lot of people to be JV partners and got a lot of the programmers working on things to build the system.  Simon created a whole bunch of products and wrote the sales page.  We put it all together and created Marketing Main Event.

I just want to also add that our partners really came through on that.  We had a lot of great JV partners who… this kind of happened throughout the process: we’d say, “Hey, let’s do this,” and one thing was, “Hey, let’s let all of our JV partners contribute something to add value and make it something that they normally charge for.”  Our partners were more than happy to do so.  So, they were putting stuff in that they normally don’t give away; it was stuff that they normally charge $50 or $100 for.  I think we had 18 membership sites.

Simon:

Yea, about 18.  Someone would become a member of Marketing Main Event, and instantly got access to probably over $1,000 of membership sites as well.

Jeremy:

Yea, and it was a real $1,000 and not some made-up number.  If you went to buy a membership to each of those sites, it would have cost $1,000.  I think that’s one thing that made Marketing Main Event unique.  So, we not only had our own products created for this event, we also had a whole bunch of membership site passes.  These were from 30-day passes up to life passes.  It was a really great deal for the customers.  We had some extra things on top of that as well like other private label rights that we threw in as bonuses.  It was just a huge package, and we charged $297 for it.  We ran the sale for ten days.  You either bought it or you didn’t.  They had a ten-day chance.  We did a two-week pre-launch because of our time limit.

Simon:

We were very professional about that, weren’t we?

Jeremy:

Yea… it wasn’t the three-month pre-launch that you see nowadays.  The whole project from start to finish was about eight weeks.  But, the result was that we made $155,000 in sales.  So, the results pulled through and we paid out $70,000 in commission to our partners and they were happy.  Our customers were happy because they got a good deal.  It was a win, win, win situation.

Terry:

All of this was run on this CMS system?

Jeremy:

Right.

Terry:

To back up a little bit, you use SK Technologies to do your website development.  Is this CMS system something that follows along with them?  Or is it something that’s a piece of software that I, for example, could purchase and put on my websites?

Jeremy:

There are various CMS models out there.  One that we had on MME 2 was called joomla….

Simon:

That’s an open source CMS system.  Basically, it works in a similar way that our custom CMS system works; you can get different plug-ins and modules.  For us, something like that wasn’t as flexible as we needed it to be.  We needed to have a tailor made system created for us.  But, one of the products that we put in the member’s area was a video series to show people how to use joomla.

You could basically watch the video and go to Joomla.org and download a copy of that CMS system and install it on your server.  You can create different things, including membership sites.  There are plug-ins that you can pay for… there’s one that you can buy that will create a locked area, so you can create a membership area using a CMS system.

It’s an incredible resource.  Jeremy can log in, I can log in; you don’t have to be in your office to do it.  You can be out in an Internet café and still monitor and work on your business.  It works incredibly well for us and we wanted to show people.  There are a lot of people in the Internet marketing community that don’t know that these things exist.  It really does simplify the running of your business.  You can create pages; you can be sitting in a pub creating a sales page and have it up and running in ten minutes.  It works really well, so we wanted to show people that and that was one of the things that was in MME 2.

In MME 3, we’re going to put a CMS system very much like the one we use in there that people can expand upon and custom make for themselves.  Everybody works differently.  So, we’re hoping to create a skeleton that people can put their own modules for their own businesses and membership sites that they want to create.  If they want to have download pages or a forum, they can do it.  So, we want to create that system and put it in MME 3.

Terry:

Excellent.

Jeremy:

The really nice thing about a CMS system, as Simon was saying, is that you can plug in as many modules as you want.  You can really grow your business.  You can do something that’s super basic or something that’s really elaborate.  Sure Fire Wealth runs on a CMS system also, I might add.  All of our sites run on CMS systems.  They’re all on dedicated servers.  We’re trying to build businesses here and not just little sales pages and stuff like that.

One thing that is really nice is that SK Technologies does all of our backend programming.  Those guys are great.  Anytime we say, “We need a new module added.  We want it to do this, this and this,” they just say, “Okay,” and a week later it’s in.  They do fantastic work.

For example, the audio site is a little different because we had streaming audio modules, streaming video modules, and downloadable modules for products.  It’s really cool because we can go in there and with a click of a button we can change the ranking of things, make things inactive, or pull a product at just the click of a button.  It’s really a great access panel.  I would really recommend it to anybody to run their business with.

It’s just so easy to run your business with.  You don’t have to FTP and log into your server and stuff like that.  It’s really complicated if you have more than one person helping you out.  If you have staff or people who need to take care of support issues, they can just log into your CMS panel and take care of things from the inbox.  You can set up a web form module, banner modules, and affiliate modules; there are so many different modules that you can set up.  You can do whatever your business needs.  So, it’s really good for expansion.

Terry:
It sounds like a CMS system is almost like anybody who uses a WordPress blog… it’s kind of like an absolutely, phenomenal candy store for people who want to create a professional website.

Simon:

Exactly.  It does work.  On my main site, I use WordPress.  I have a blog on there.  And it works in a very similar way.  You log into the control panel, you click “create a post,” and about ten seconds later, you have a new page on your site.  The CMS system works just like that.  It allows us to get content to people quicker because we don’t have to worry about, as Jeremy said, logging into a server, going in through FTP, and creating pages in a web editor.  This makes it very simple for us.

Terry:

That’s beautiful.  I think anybody like myself and you two in the beginning, where you have to slug through developing each individual webpage, and then we get to the point of using the CMS system or the dashboard in WordPress, it’s almost like being a kid in a candy store; it’s just so incredibly simple and exciting.

Just to back step a little bit, you guys got together and came up with the idea of Marketing Main Event.  Did you do any research to see if this was something that would make a splash in the market?  Or did you just run on gut feel?

Jeremy:

It was a run on gut feeling for the first one.  It was just like, “Let’s do it.  Let’s get it out to our customers and it will sell.”  It was that kind of deal.  Simon had a lot of products that were in the work and half done, so he had a lot of stuff that he finished up.  How many products were in there?  Was it 12, Simon?

Simon:

Yea.  One of the things that I do, which is a good tip for people who want to create products, is to get a little notebook and just carry it around with you.  You can have ideas for products in the strangest places.  I think that it’s harder for people who are just starting out to come up with ideas.  But, because I’ve been involved with this for six years prior, and that I was an Internet marketer, and because I had the problems that Internet marketers have.

The way I would tell people to create products is not necessarily the way that I would do it myself.  I tend to create a lot of things that I would want to use.  I consider being in the supermarket with my wife on the weekend.  We can be walking near the wine section and I’ll think, “Oh, I have to do this and this,” and grab a pen and a notepad and just make little notes to myself and think if it’s something that’s viable.

If we’re talking about product creation, the common knowledge or message that a lot of people put out there is to create a product that you love.  If you’re into horse riding, write a book on horse riding.  That’s good, and you need some sort of passion about what you’re creating.

I have a passion for Internet marketing, copywriting, and direct response.  For me, I get the best of both worlds.  But, sometimes, what you love isn’t going to sell.  People have to be realistic.  You are, as an Internet marketer, a marketer.  If you love stamp collecting or collecting beer bottle tops, there aren’t necessarily going to be thousands and thousands of people who share your passion.

So, the important thing that you should do is research.  What we did before MME 2 was that we polled people who bought MME 1.  We contacted all of my subscribers and Jeremy’s members and said, “What is it that is causing you problems in your business?  What sort of information can we give you that will help you sell more products or help you run your business better?  What sort of products do you use that you hate?  Tell us the three biggest problems that you have as an Internet marketer.  We had about 3,500 replies to that.

Jeremy:

I have them sitting right in front of me here.  One thing that we did different for MME 2 was this survey.  We didn’t have the luxury for doing that for MME 1 because we just didn’t have the time; we wanted to knock it out before Christmas rolled around.  We started in September and launched it in November.  Right away, we started to work on MME 2 after everything was done, our customers were taken care of, and our affiliates were paid.  We knew we weren’t just going to sit around here; we knew we were going to start working on MME 2.

The first thing we did, as Simon said, was a survey.  We sent it out in January of 2006.  We sent it to our own lists just to try to get feedback from people.  And over 3,000 people gave us their responses.  Some of the responses that came through were pretty interesting.  Do you mind if I just mention a couple, Terry?

Terry:

Yea, please.

Jeremy:

One thing we discovered is the age range of a lot of our customers.  47% are between 30 and 50 years old.  52% we’re between 50 and 75 years old.  That really made us think about the target and who was going to buy our products.  Most of these people were about the age of our fathers.  So, we’re thinking that these are people who may be looking for retirement income, a second income, or something like that.  Maybe they’re not computer savvy.  Maybe they need some computer training and things like that.

The gender was 75% male, 25% female.  So, we’re looking at more of a male audience here, but there are some female marketers too.  The level of experience in Internet marketing… 38% said they were just starting out.  So, right away, we saw that we had a lot of teaching to do.  32% said there was still much to do, and 25% said up and running but not earning.  So, we’re looking at 95% are either just starting or not making any money.  Only 5% said they were doing well.  That made us think.

43% were working jobs and working online on the evenings and weekends.  Only 20% were working full-time online.  That was another thing that we found interesting.  Also, some of the bigger issues that we were surprised on, well, maybe this wasn’t so surprising… for the question, “Which area in marketing do you think requires the most attention?” this really made us think of what to develop for MME 2.  69% said… what do you think they said, Terry?

Terry:

I would say sales letters and copywriting.

Jeremy:

Nope.

Terry:

Really?

Simon:

I would have said the same thing, Terry, because if you think about it, unless you write good sales copy, you don’t sell any products.

Terry:

Yea… how about list building?

Jeremy:

List building was number two.  69% said they wanted to know how to get more visitors.  62% said they want to know how to build a list.

Terry:

Oh, yup.

Simon:

If you think about it, me and Jeremy realized that a lot of people have it backwards.  Having a lot of visitors doesn’t mean making a lot of money.

Jeremy:

Exactly.

Simon:

It’s the conversion rates and how to increase conversion rates.  How to write better copy is something that people should really have at the top of their minds.  Yet, those were the fifth and sixth most important thing to people.  Unless everybody can write very good sales copy, they have it all a little wrong.  I think that’s predominately caused by the market itself always telling people that they need more traffic.  In reality, you need a better sales letter and a better product.

Jeremy:

It’s pretty funny because the top two are getting more traffic and building a list.  Number four was how to increase conversion rates.  Number five was how to write better sales copy.  That’s so backwards.

Terry:

Isn’t that funny?

Jeremy:

Yea.  Below that was researching markets.  That’s why people aren’t making money online because they have it backwards.

Simon:

The perception is the wrong way around.  You should research the markets, write good copy, create high converting websites, and then worry about traffic and your list.

Jeremy:

Then you get the traffic and build your list, yea.  That’s one thing that we realized people had wrong.  One of the things that we created for MME 2 was, while Simon was busy creating more products, I created four new membership sites that I have people after they bought MME 2.  One of them was LearningToEarn.com.  That whole site was dedicated to people learning about business.  It has 18 eCourses set up where people can learn anything from the basics about everything: SEO, list building, generating traffic, how to use Microsoft Word… really anything.

Another site was SavingYourTime.com, which was all video and audio tutorials.  I think it’s up to 300 hours of video tutorials now.  Once you’re a member, you can log in and watch how to do everything: how to get traffic, how to build your list, how to increase conversion rates, how to write better sales copy, how to do affiliate marketing, how to do anything.  We gave everybody who bought Marketing Main Event 2 the ability to resale those sites.  It’s similar to what you do with your site, Terry, but a different type of thing where they get a link and can use that and then get the money sent directly to their account.

So, those are two sites that I created to help people learn how to do stuff.  Hopefully, they helped the MME 2 members out.  Simon also created some products that help people learn things.  These were just crazy.  People wanted to know how to get more visitors and create a mailing list, so we created ViralTrafficListBuilder.com.  It does help get more visitors.  It was just an experiment that I did that ended up getting two million ad impressions for me using that site.  People can use that to get advertising, get visitors for their site and build a mailing list.

Terry:

How does that work?  How did you end up getting two million visitors?

Jeremy:

You can imagine how Google AdSense has a little box with ads and text links right?

Terry:

Yup.

Jeremy:

A Viral Traffic List Builder member can set up their ad and then they can put a code on their webpage.  If you go to SureFireWealth.com, you can see the codes on the right bar and left bar.  All the ads are rotated every impression.  Since I have a pretty high traffic site, I have a lot of impressions.  I just put a decoder on Sure Fire Wealth, so, my sites were in there and also other member’s sites got rotated throughout the system.  It ended up generating over two million impressions in two months.

That helps to get visitors to the sites.  If two million people see your ad, somebody is going to click on it.  The idea is not to send people to a webpage, you send them to a squeeze page, which will build your list.  We kind of wanted to take care of those two issues that 69% of the people were having trouble with.  Those are just some things that we did for MME2 that were a direct result from the survey we took to try to solve people’s problems.

The next issue was what areas are you interested in?  And 65% of the people were interested in affiliate marketing, which is kind of surprising.  A lot of people were just interested in selling other people’s products.  55% are interested in AdSense income.

Simon:

That blows my mind because I’m not a big fan.  As Jeremy has heard me argue on many occasions… the whole thing just goes over my head, I have to admit.

Terry:

That’s another good point: everybody has their own strengths and weaknesses.  You might not be into the AdSense side, but Jeremy, are you into it?  What’s your opinion?

Jeremy:

I started to get into it a little bit this year.  I’ve been learning and I know there is a ton of potential there.  If you make it into a full-time business for yourself, you can do very well with it.  I’m just casually doing it.  I just threw some AdSense links on my site and just let it go by itself.  I concentrate more on affiliate marketing and my own sites and things like that.  But yea, as you said, go with your strengths.  You can do AdSense full-time, but it takes a lot of work.

So, yea, a lot of people were interested in affiliate marketing, so one thing we did that was different than Marketing Main Event 1 was that on Marketing Main Event 2, we made a super easy system.  Simon and I had discussed how we were going to do this, and I don’t think we’ve seen it done at all.

Simon:

Ever since.

Jeremy:

I don’t know if you’ve seen it done, Terry… all the products that we created, people have the option to download the product, upload it to the server and sales page, sell it and keep 100% of the income because they have master resale rights.  Their other option, who is either a newbie and doesn’t know how to do that, or who is a super busy successful marketer who doesn’t want to have to do that, they get one link.  They go to their profile, they put their PayPal link in the field, click save, and then all of these magic links pop up on all of the products.  They just take that link and promote that link.

That sends a person directly to the product’s sales page that is all run on our server.  The person buys that product, the money goes directly to their PayPal account, there’s a thank you page, the customer goes and downloads the product, and everybody is happy.  It’s super easy.  So, for example, a newbie just has to have that one link to sell the product.  They don’t have to do anything else.  We get a lot of people asking us, “I have all these products… now how do I sell them?”  All you need is a link.

A super busy person (a successful marketer) could just plug these into their autoresponders and have them on autopilot and have money coming in throughout the year just from setting up these links and forgetting about them.  So, we tried to kill two birds with one stone by doing that.  It’s kind of related to affiliate marketing because people don’t have to do a lot of work and they get all of the money.  So, it’s a pretty good system.  It took some programming from SK and they did a really good job and they set it up for us.  That’s one of many unique points of MME 2.

Terry:

You have this one super link that basically opens up an entire catalogue of products.

Jeremy:

Each product has a link, yup.  They get to pick which one.

Simon:

Say you want to sell product X.  You just go up to where product X is listed in the membership area, copy and paste the super link for that product, and you could just plug it into an autoresponder or put it on your page and the whole process, from the people seeing a sales page, to buying the product, to delivering the product is all automated.

Jeremy and I, when we first started talking about doing something like that, he first said, that we know a lot of people are interested in affiliate marketing.  That’s how an affiliate system works; you get a link to promote a product.  We wanted to do that where you get a link to promote your own product.  You could basically scrap your webpage software, your FTP software, and you don’t need a web host; you could just put this up and sell things immediately.

Terry:

Wow.

Simon:

All the main products inside MME 2 have those links.

Terry:
Phenomenal.

Simon:

I’m guessing that the people inside MME 2 aren’t telling the people outside MME 2 about this.

Terry:

Probably not.

Simon:

We don’t do well on recommendations from members because they don’t tell anybody what they have inside.

Terry:
You end up being kind of a secret.

Jeremy:

Yea.  There’s a lot of cool stuff inside that only the MME members will probably ever know about.  That’s one of them.

Terry:

With MME 2, is it the same kind of thing as you did with MME 1 that it runs for ten days and then that’s it?

Jeremy:

Yea.  The initial sales process, yea.

Simon:

What we wanted to do… obviously, by having it set for a certain amount of time… MME 1 was back in November of 2005, but the doors were open on that site for ten days.  The same was with MME 2 in June; the doors were open for ten days.  Then, we shut the doors.  But, both of those sites are still active and the people who joined at the time are still using those sites.  But, access to them was limited.  We really wanted to fill the sites with members very quickly and keep to a set number.  If you get more than 1,000 inside a site, for example, support becomes an issue.  Because there are a lot of products in MME 2, we thought that 1,000 people was a good cap.

People go out and promote different things.  We may end up with 90 or 100 people promoting one product, instead of 1,000 people promoting that product.  We thought if we left the membership open and let more and more people come in, that will really reduce the effectiveness for the people who were already in there.  So, we only left the doors open for ten days.  We pretty much said come in or don’t, but at the end of the ten days no one can come in.  We could have probably sold the same number of memberships again over the last few months, but we wanted to limit it.

Terry:

Excellent.  Is that the same idea that you’re doing with MME 3?

Simon:

Yes.

Jeremy:

It’s similar, yes.

Simon:

I don’t think we’re going to run it for 10 days this time; people are going to have to be a little bit sharper to get in.

Jeremy:

Simon was thinking three days.  I’m thinking seven.  We’re not sure yet, but it’s going to be shorter than ten.

Terry:

The next 24 hours, and that’s it.  So, if you don’t mind me asking, what are the figures?  You have $150,000 on MME 1.  How much money did MME 2 bring in?

Jeremy:

The price was a bit higher on MME 2; it was $697 for a lifetime membership.  They got a lot more than they did in MME 1, so the price increased.  We did a lot of things that we really go into on Marketing Explosion (at MarketingExplosion.com).  A lot of things that we did we haven’t seen a lot of people do in launches.  One thing, Terry, that’s kind of interesting, is that we made over $100,000 in our pre-launch for MME 2.

Terry:

You made $100,000 in your pre-launch?

Jeremy:

Before we started, yea.

Terry:

Okay… how did you do that?

Simon:

Go to MarketingExplosion.com.

Jeremy:

In a nutshell, we did some bonuses on some big promotions throughout 2006.  We did one big promotion in January of 2006 where we offered people MME 2 as a bonus.  We hadn’t even created MME 2 at the time; it was just in development stages.  That was the bonus for anybody who bought this product from us, and it was pretty high commission and the profit margin was there so we were able to do that.  We wanted to get some people in MME 2 to test things out for us before we launched.  That generated around $50,000 in sales.  We split that on commissions; I think it was $25,000 in commissions and we split that.

Then, we also offered, I’ll be very brief on this, but I want to tell people what we did.  Is that okay, Simon?

Simon:

Yea, that’s fine.

Jeremy:

Okay.  One thing we did that a lot of people are missing out on, is give your current customer base the opportunity to buy your next product at a discount.  That’s what we did: we gave our MME 1 members the opportunity to get MME 2 at a little bit of a discount.  They were qualified customers.  They already paid the $297 for this product.  We said, “Hey guys.  You’re loyal customers.  You had faith in us with MME 1.  Here’s an opportunity to get MME 2 at a little bit less.  Here’s the key: you can’t get in until launch day to use the products, and we can’t show you everything that is in there.”

Terry:

They’re buying your trust.

Jeremy:

Exactly.

Simon:

Which I think is important.  We got a lot of that because we over delivered big time on MME 1.  So, I think that’s very important.  If people don’t know who you are, to basically do what we did and say, “We can’t tell you everything that’s in here.  We can just tell you that it’s really good.  Give us your money.”  That’s not the easiest thing in the world to do.  We built up that trust and had that prior relationship with people, which is very important, so it worked very well for us.

Jeremy:

Yea, we did around 30,000 or 40,000 presales.

Terry:

That’s a substantial number in a pre-launch without even having a product that you’re selling yet.

Simon:

That’s right.  The product didn’t theoretically exist and we made over $100,000 with it.  I think if you add, not to go into too much detail, but if you combine MME 1, MME 2, and the audio site… I think there are over 12,000 members in the audio site and we’re hardly promoted that.  But, on the main page site we have 1,500 members.  In that eight-month period, it’s just a little bit shy of a million dollars.

Terry:

That’s the 12,000 members plus the 1,500 members?

Simon:

Yes.

Terry:

So you’re looking at less than 15,000 members that made you $100,000 in a pre-launch.  That’s phenomenal, I’m speechless.  That is incredible.  How did you go about… you have the whole package together… I kind of interrupted you Jeremy.  Where were you going?

Jeremy:

No, that’s fine.  Simon really finished it out there.  I was just going to say in direct sales, we use some bonus things and the audio site was actually a pre-launch tool.  Instead of giving people a free report or a free video or something, we made a membership site.  That was a tool during the pre-launch to build the list, get the buzz going, and help kick off MME 2.  At the same time, it provided people with a lot of good content.  It was a tool that also generated another $30,000 in sales for us during the pre-launch.

Terry:

That’s phenomenal.

Jeremy:

Yea.  A lot of things came together.  It was a pretty good deal there.

Simon:

That’s one of the things that is very powerful when you want to start building a list or start promoting something.  As Jeremy said, people give away a free book, free report, or PDF file.  There is so much free stuff out there that it loses its real effectiveness.  We both feel that.  We wanted to do something different on MME 2.  So, as Jeremy said, we actually created an actual membership site as a pre-launch tool.  Some people think you should do a video or a pre-launch blog, but we actually created an entire membership site as a warmer.

Jeremy:

It’s located at audio.marketingmainevent2.com.

Simon:

That site became viral and on its own made us $30,000.  It recruited 12,000 people and is still going and working now.  I don’t think either of us has sent an e-mail about it since March, and there are still probably a bunch coming in per month.  Do you know how many, Jeremy?

Jeremy:

A couple hundred come in every month and we make about $1,000 in sales every month and we don’t do anything.

Terry:

That’s fantastic.

Simon:

It’s completely automatic.  It put 12,000 people at the time into our sphere.  People realized that we were giving them valuable information.  We took the survey results and we went through each and every question.  Then, we answered them in the survey course.  We talked about marketing mindset, affiliate marketing, list building, and gave that content away for free.  That was a $200 or $300 product and we gave people access to that for free to build that pre-warmer list for MME 2.

Jeremy:

Most people would have sold something like that for $200 and we just basically gave it away.

Terry:

You guys are probably two of the most generous people I’ve ever met.  So, how did you go about the actual marketing then?  You developed your list, then where did you go from there?

Simon:

Because we had the time on MME 2, it gave us a lot more time to market and build a buzz in the pre-launch.  Jeremy can give you some of the things that we did on the marketing side.  Do you just want to run through some of the things that we integrated?

Jeremy:

Sure.  One thing we did was started generating JV partners about four or five months before we launched, actually.  I get e-mails all the time that say, “I’m launching a product next week.  Here’s my affiliate link.  Sign up.”  I’m like, “Get out of here.  You have to give me some notice.”  I know people are busy so we gave them more time.

We sponsored some seminars actually.  We sponsored JV Alert, something by Joel Christopher, and a few other events.

Terry:

How does that work?  What do you sponsor?

Jeremy:

Well, what we did was, everybody who attended those seminars could see our JV page and they could sign up as a JV partner.  We figured if they were going to spend $500 or $1,000 to go to a seminar, they’re qualified JV partners, they must be serious about making some money online.  So, we gave them a chance to sign up as our partners.  We got some good partners from those seminars.

I sent a personal e-mail to each of our current JV partners from MME 1.  I said, “Hey guys.  We’re doing MME 2.  Do you want in?  Here’s a link.  We’d be happy to have you.”  So, half or 75% of our JV partners from MME 1 also helped with MME 2.  Then, I contacted some more people who I haven’t talked to in a while and some new contacts that I had developed.  Simon also developed new relationships, so we got some more people on board.

Then, we also got a hold of Mike Merz, who did a really good job as a JV broker.  He brought in a lot of good partners.  If anybody is going to do a really big launch, it’s helpful to have a JV broker involved.  He did a really good job.  I really credit a lot of our success to our JV partners.  They did a lot of sales.  Our top affiliate did a phenomenal job.  It wasn’t just him though; all of our affiliate did great.  We had a lot of people doing four figures.  We had several people get five figure commission checks.  It was really nice to see those big payoffs for people.

We had enough time and enough of a buzz built up for our partners to get on board and get things going for them.  A lot of it we did secretively; we didn’t do any big announcements until about a month before the launch.  A lot of it was private several months before that.  We also sent e-mails to our own lists.  We created all the tools for our partners to use: the prewritten e-mails, banners, text links, and all of that stuff.  But, we really encouraged them to write their own reviews.  The one who did that, it definitely showed on the sales results.

We also had a contest.  We see a lot of people nowadays doing contests.  When we did a contest for Marketing Main Event 1, not a lot of people were doing contests.  If they were, the top prize was like 1,000 or something.  On MME 1, our top prize was $2,500 in cash, which was a good incentive for people to be the top affiliate.  Second place was $1,000.

Marketing Main Event 2, the top prize was $5,000 in cash.  That made a little more incentive for people to go to that number one spot.  The number two spot was $2,500 and number three was $1,000.  Sometimes you see promotions where people are giving away prizes or a $25 coupon or something.  I mean, come on.

Simon:

I actually saw something the other day where the first prize was a mouse.  I think for people who are in affiliate programs, most people are attracted by the thought of cold hard cash.  That’s what we’ve always used.  Occasionally, we’re tired with the idea.  Sometimes I think that we should give the top winner of MME 3 an all paid trip to Vegas or something like that, but I think that would serve more as a publicity stunt than it would as an incentive for people to go out and really promote.  Especially if the top affiliate maybe lives next door.  I think they’d rather have $10,000 or $5,000 in cash so they could do what they want with it.

Jeremy:

Yea.  We had a good affiliate program set up with a contest and a pre-launch buzz.  Anybody who is doing any kind of launch, those are some good things to do.  If you’re going to have a contest, make it worthwhile for people.

Terry:

When you go out and try to contact a joint venture partner, what’s your pitch or way of doing things?  Do you send them an e-mail, call them, or what?

Simon:

We do it quite aggressively.

Terry:

Okay.  Use me as an example.  If you were after me, what would you say?

Simon:

Well, now that I have your contact details, I’ll be getting in touch with you more, Terry and just hassling you constantly.

Terry:

Great.

Simon:

I think a big thing is that you have to help people first.  I get JV invitations all the time, as well as Jeremy does and you probably do as well.  I’ve turned down six this week.  I can get up to a dozen a week, and I just don’t have the time to promote something for everybody.  I hear people say all the time that you could never get a JV partner with a well-known Internet marketer.  They think it’s a club and that they all promote for each other.

In a way, that’s a little bit true, but that’s because they have a relationship with those people already.  They’ve met them at various seminars, or they’ve worked together on various things in the past.  If you have that relationship with somebody, where you can trust somebody in a way, that’s a big thing.  If you’ve worked with somebody before, and you know they're going to look after their customers well, that they’re going to create good products for people, and you ultimately know that those products are going to sell, then it’s a lot easier of a step to take to promote for somebody.

I would say to people who don’t have those contacts to start working on those contacts.  You don’t need to have a product to sell to start getting in touch with people.  Maybe join their affiliate program and sell a lot of products for them.  Or, create something that compliments one of their products.  All of those things help develop the relationship.  When it comes to it, when you need assistance yourself, you can ask them if they can help you.  People will feel much more at ease to promote something with you and working with you if they know who you are and what you’re about.

I get some crazy e-mails saying, “I’ll pay you 15% commission.  This is a product and it will do X, Y, and Z.  It launches in about three hours time.”  I used to reply to every one of those e-mails because I was in that position four or five years ago.  I never sent anything as stupid as that, but that’s what some people send you.  It’s crazy.  Right now, in mid-October, I have promotions lined up and things of my own and things that I’ve agreed that I will promote probably until the New Year.

You just cannot reply to them all; I do read everything, but I just don’t have time to reply.  If I replied to every e-mail I got, I wouldn’t have time to run a business.  People have to realize that.  Sometimes you might reply back and say, “I’m sorry.  This looks good but I can’t promote it for you.”  You might get a snotty e-mail back from them, and then you’ll never promote anything for them because they have a bad attitude.  That attitude will translate into the relationship that they have with their customers.

Jeremy and I recognize that one of the most important things you can do as a marketer is look after your customers.  Out of the ten people to ask you to promote something, maybe one gets through because the rest aren’t a good enough fit for the people on your list.  They’re just not good enough for them.  Some people say it’s a marketing club.  But, the way to get into that club is to do something first.  Don’t expect somebody with a list of 25,000 or 100,000 people to say, “Yea, of course I don’t mind promoting your product for 15%,” because that’s not going to happen.  Those people have worked for years to build those resources up.

People have to realize that you have to give value first.  You have to show people that you’re good and worth it before you ask for anything.

Jeremy:

Right.  That’s a really good point, Simon.  Anybody who is doing anything online and who has a list can sell anything that they want.  Finding a product to sell is not the issue.  The issue is finding a reliable product and a company that is going to take care of their customers and finding something that will fit your list.  If you want to JV with somebody, create some content first that will help that potential JV partner out first.

Become a member of that potential JV partner’s list first.  Buy their products and promote their products first.  Then, maybe give them something that will help their customers out.  Say, “Hey.  I just created this new membership site.  I normally charge for it, but would you want to offer this for free as a gift to your paid customers?”  Or, “Hey.  I just wrote this report but I’m not going to let anybody else give it away except for you.  Do you want to give it to your list?”  Or, “Hey.  I just made this new audio that I think might help your list out.  Do you want to give it to them?  Oh, by the way, there is a one time offer where you will make a commission if anybody upgrades.”

Things like that will get people’s attention more than, “Hey.  I’m launching a product this Friday.  You’ll make 15% commission.”  Give me a break.  That’s just not the way to approach things.  These things take time; a JV is not just going to happen in a week; it’s a relationship that has to develop first.  You have to go somewhere first with it.

Once you have a relationship with somebody, any time you come out with a new product in the future, they’ll probably listen to you.  They might say no, but at least they’ll hear you out.  Some of them might say, “No, but keep me informed for your next one.”  That’s fine because everybody is busy.  But, you have to get that relationship first.

So, yea.  It’s not some exclusive club at all.  I have zero contacts like three years ago.  I made tons of phone calls and sent e-mails.  People should just go and do it.  Don’t complain about it or give up or whatever; just go about it professionally.  Anything is possible.

Terry:

That’s super.  Just to back up one step, you had said that you sponsor seminars.  What kind of details are involved there?  How would someone sponsor a seminar?  For example, Ken McArthur just had a JV Alert seminar.  What would I do…?

Jeremy:

You could just ask Ken.  I did that.  I think the first JV one he did about a year ago, he was actually selling sponsorships.  He had a link that said, “You can become a sponsor for an event.”  I just went there and bought a spot; it was pretty easy.  After that I e-mailed him personally and said, “Hey.  I bought a sponsorship for your event.  Can I do this or do that?”  I asked some questions and we e-mailed back and forth and got it set up how we wanted it.

Then, Joel Christopher asked me if I wanted to be a speaker, and I said, “Sorry, I can’t make it, but I would like to sponsor your event.”  I don’t even think he had a sponsorship, but I just offered it to him.  He said, “Yea, that sounds interesting.”  So, you can just offer it to people who are having events.  You can just ask if it would be possible to sponsor their seminar.

Terry:

What does it mean for the people?  Do you give them a brochure or something?  What do they get?

Simon:

We created a brochure, didn’t we?

Jeremy:

Yea.  I think I sent Ken a PDF that he could just print out and pass out to people.  I also sent him a link that he could give to people also, so they could do it online or physically.  Ideally, you would be at the event too and you could pass it out and even have a little booth.  I think Ken was letting people have their own little booth that they could have at the event.  I just couldn’t make it, so I had to do it away from the event.

If you have a few bucks, just talk to people and ask if they have sponsorships for their seminars.  If they don’t, they don’t.  If they do, they do.  That’s it.  There are a lot of different ways to go about things.  Pretty much, another incentive would be a second tier program and say, “Can I sponsor your event?  I’ll give you a link to use where anybody who signs up as a JV partner under you, you’ll make a 10% over right.  That’s kind of throwing in a sponsorship and a JV broker opportunity to them.  There are different ways to do things like that.

Simon:

I think the big thing, Terry, is to just ask.  It surprises me a lot of times coming from offline sales where you’re not offered until you ask.  My day as a sales manager was going to see companies and speaking to companies on the phone.  A lot of people approach Internet marketing as if it’s a whole different world, but in reality, it’s an easier way to do it.  You have e-mail, Skype, MSN, and all of these different things.  You have all of these communication opportunities and people just don’t seem to take them.

Going back to the JV thing again, there aren’t only six people in the world that you could do JVs with.  There are thousands of people you could do JVS with.  People think, “If I don’t get Simon or if I don’t get Jeremy to help me promote this, my whole world is lost.”  That’s crazy.  There are a thousand marketers out there that could help you get sales.

Jeremy:

Exactly.

Terry:

That’s a beautiful point because I think a lot of the time people have that perspective, especially if they’re not experienced online.  They think that there’s no way to contact either of you.  How could they talk to guys how are making a lot of money?  Or, they don’t actually realize that we’re normal guys.  You can talk to us on the phone or on Skype; it’s not like we live in some ivory tower.

Simon:

We’re all just people.  People have different levels of defenses around them though.  It’s the same in any business.  If you try to get an appointment with someone in an offline company, you can get one with someone like an M.D. because he’s the guy who picks the phone up.  In some companies, you have to go through a group of assistants to get there.  If you have a good offer, and what you have created is good and will help them and their customers, (which is a magic triangle of win, win, win) then unless the guy is just way too busy, it will appeal to him.  It doesn’t matter who you are.  If you can prove that what you say is good and what you’ve done is good, and it creates that win, win, win, then people will give you the chance to make a pitch to them.

Jeremy:

Yea.  I’m sure that a lot of people know who Mark Joyner is.  I don’t think he had any idea who I was, but I approached him with an offer and he took me up on it.  He replied back to me personally.  He did review my business first, he told me that, and then he got back to me.  We set up a marketing plan where we promote each other’s sites passively for long-term results.

Terry:
How do you do that?

Jeremy:

Well, I let Mark give all of his paid members a free silver membership to my site.  I recommend his site to all my members.  I have a link on my site.  So, he’s constantly getting new members and I’m constantly getting new members.  It’s a win, win situation.  At the same time, people who join those sites are getting good content.

I did the same thing with Mike Filsaime and a few other marketers.  I set up a lot of different things privately that nobody knows about except for me and the dogs.  You just have to ask people.  The worst they could say is no.  If they say yes, then cool.

Terry:

Mark Joyner is a good example.  How did you get in contact personally with Mark Joyner?

Jeremy:

I joined his site, Simpleology, and I really liked it.  I went through all of the videos and content and I thought it was a really cool site.  I wanted to offer his site to my members as well.  I was starting to build up Sure Fire Wealth, so I had a little leverage.  I just contacted him.  I think I went to his about me on his website or his web form I’m not too sure which.  I’m pretty sure I contacted his assistant first, and she said, “Yea, Mark reviewed your offer and your business and he’d like to talk to you for further discussion.”  I sent him an e-mail back, and then Mark e-mailed me back a couple of times and then it was done.

For a long-term relationship, it worked out nice.  For MME 2, all I did was say, “Mark, we have a pretty cool launch coming up.  Can you help us out?  We think we could give your members some good content on a call.”  The day before MME 2 launched, Simon and I did a live call with Mark.  That was pretty fun.  We gave his listeners some solid content for an hour, and Mark also pulled out the winner for a free Marketing Main Event 2 membership.  It was a lot of fun and was good for building relationships.

Terry:

That’s fantastic.  I think you guys have touched on the whole key of it, which is building that relationship.  I think that a lot of people read joint venture books and watch the videos and what not, and they get in their mind about getting a joint venture offer for something that’s coming out in three hours from someone you’ve never heard of in your life.

Simon:

The other thing as well, about 18 months or two years ago there was some software out doing rounds that basically spat out auto-generated JV proposals.  People that use something like that are not people that I would want to do business with in the first place.  If someone doesn’t even have the time to write an e-mail, what are they going to do with the people that I send to them as customers?  The customers are going to get some auto-generated e-mails too.  This could be the start of a beautiful relationship and you can’t even bother to write it yourself, so I think those are trash.

Jeremy:

Yea.  I’ve gotten JV proposals that said, “Dear SureFireWealth.com….”

Terry:

Well, that’s personal.

Jeremy:

I hit the delete button in about one second.

Terry:

That’s wild.  So, what’s coming up next for you guys?  Is MME 3 the next big product?  Or do you have 30 or 40 products before that, Simon?

Simon:

I have a few things but the main one that we’re going to launch is Marketing Explosion.  That is going to give people… a lot of the things we talked about in this call will be covered in Marketing Explosion.  For some people, it’s the nitty gritty and mechanics of what we did to create those sites.  If you think about it, what Jeremy and I did… neither of us are rocket scientist gurus.  We can do what 90% of the population can do.  I think people who are going to listen to what we did can do the same or even better.

We wanted to share that information with people because we know that there are a lot of marketers out there that don’t make a lot of money.  So, we want to give people the facts and not some strategy that hasn’t been proven to work.  We tell people exactly what we did.  That will be Marketing Explosion.

Then, we have Marketing Main Event 3, which we are working on right now.  We just finished another survey.  We followed the same pattern that we used for MME 2 and I think we have almost 5,000 answers to start reading through.

Jeremy:

We have a busy weekend.

Simon:

Yea.  We also have a few other big things coming out in 2007 as well.

Terry:

Beautiful.  We’ve covered a hug amount of information from both of you guys.  Do you have any last words of advice before we wrap things up?

Simon:

Yea.  One of the biggest tips that anyone has ever given to me is to find a hungry crowd and feed it and keep feeding it.  I think that’s important.  If you’re going to create a product, create something that people want and that there is a market for.  We’ve talked extensively about Internet marketing, but the world is a very big world and there are a lot of interests.  Internet marketing probably interests 1% of the whole population.  There are a lot of things online that interest people.  You should go look at the world around you and look for marketing opportunities.

The other thing that is very important is to learn how to write sales copy.  The magic you can create with a pen or a keyboard is incredible.

Terry:

Excellent.

Jeremy:

Definitely.  I’ll just add a couple of things on that.  Number one, some people just come online and say that they want to make money.  That’s not a goal.  You need to set your goals and figure out what you want to do first.  If you don’t know what you want to do, how can anybody else help you out?  So, number one, you need to figure out what you want to do.  Everybody has different strengths, weaknesses, and different ways they want to go.  Find out what you like doing; think of what your passion and desire is and go with that.  Go into that field and find things that you can improve on.  Find gaps in the market.  Take surveys.  Find out what people want.

Create products, services, and membership sites that are needed and that people will pay for.  Build your list from day one of your business.  Once you find out what you want to do, build your list and start building your business.  Don’t just create a product or something; build a business.  Figure out your exit strategy.  Figure out where you want to be a year from now and five years from now.

You have to figure things out and lay it all out.  Stop treating your online marketing as some little hobby and saying that you want to make $100,000 a day because that’s not going to happen.  Get serious about it.  If you do get serious about it, set your goals, and build a business, then it will happen.

Always think positive as well.  Your self-conscious mind is always directing yourself.  If you’re always thinking positive and setting goals, then those goals will become reality.

Terry:

That’s fantastic.  We’ve gotten fantastic ideas and advice from both of you guys.  I want to thank you both very, very much for taking the time to be with us today and sharing an absolutely plethora of information that really gives the details about how to make some money online and be successful.

I want to thank you as well for listening.  It’s been a pleasure being here with Jeremy Gislason and Simon Hodgkinson from Marketing Main Event 1, 2, and coming up on three.  My name is Terry Telford from TerryTelford.com.  Thanks very much for your time.

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